#1 - Lights, Camera, Dyslexia! Interview with Peggy Stern

In this episode of Matters of the Mind, I speak with Peggy Stern, award-winning film producer and creator of “Super Dville”, an educational video series for dyslexic kids. Peggy shares her personal journey with dyslexia and how she utilized her skills as a filmmaker and storyteller to support young neurodivergent learners.

Learn more about SuperDVille https://superdville.com/

Transcript

Pippa: Hello everyone, my name is Pippa Greenberg and you are listening to my podcast Matters of the Mind. Today, our special guest Peggy Stern will be joining us. Peggy is a film producer who helps students with dyslexia by making videos targeted to their needs. She received her BA from Harvard University with a degree in visual and environmental studies. She is the CEO and founder of SuperDville, an education company that specializes in teaching students with LDs, encouraging confidence, and helping students achieve their potentials in a classroom. In this episode, we'll be discussing Peggy's inspiration for creating SuperDville, As well as her work as a film producer, helping students with dyslexia. She will also be sharing learning tips and tricks to help neurodivergent students with dyslexia. Now it's my greatest pleasure to introduce Peggy Stern. Thank you so much for joining us. 

Peggy: My pleasure. This is a great podcast. I love it. 

Pippa: Can you share a little bit about how dyslexia guided you to working as a film producer?

Peggy: Well, absolutely. You know, when I was little in elementary school, it was the 60s, and at my school, my teachers did not know about dyslexia, and it wasn't as if they were doing testing or identifying kids. And I was just really lucky that my grandmother was in education and she picked up on my issues really young and she brought me to somebody by the time I was already five and I was beginning to get help.

And my tutor was just this wonderful woman who was trained in Orton Gillingham, which is used now, but it was around, it's been around a long time. More than that, she was like a Mary Poppins. I mean, she was constantly pulling out wonderful ways to keep me engaged because it's very tedious to keep having to learn over and over things that your brain is not [00:02:00] wired to understand.

And one of the things she did is that she would have me dictate a story because she felt I got a lot of joy out of telling stories and being creative. So even at a pretty young age, she'd say, Oh, tell me a story and she would type it up. And then that's what we would work on reading and learning to decode.

And it just gave me such a sense of confidence that she thought I was interesting enough to type up something that I had to say. And she just had a great sensitivity to the need for kids with learning differences. She just really understood how self esteem was the huge first step is to try to keep that intact.

For me, I was a very visual learner. So as time went on, I thought at first, Oh, well, I think maybe I did photography. I did anything I could that would help me do something visual and not have to [00:03:00] put a word on a piece of paper. Even though I did love telling stories, I ended up thinking I was going to do art history because I thought, oh, well, I can learn things through using art, but it involved a lot of reading and it was tough and there weren't books on tape and I didn't get accommodations in college.

And so luckily I had an advisor who said, you know, I think you should go over and be majoring in the art department and you should be making art, you know, and that is really what you should do. And I was just really blessed that. I had different people in my life at different points who just seemed to see my strengths and really didn't focus on my deficits.

So I started pursuing that and it was really like just a huge relief. I just found being able to just work in the visual medium was exhilarating. And so that's how I got into filmmaking. So fast forward, I have a son and a daughter and I kind of watched them closely and my son did not have [00:04:00] dyslexia, but I could tell early on that my daughter did, and I always knew I wanted to do something about dyslexia, but it's such a complicated topic to make visual, and I thought I was going to make a documentary, because that's what my background was, and then one day a parent of a young child who had dyslexia was talking to me and he happened to be in the film business and he said, you know, my child goes to a school for kids with dyslexia in New York City, and it's a top notch school, but he still comes home in second grade, sometimes feeling so discouraged and saying, Why am I like this?

Why am I different? You know, this is so hard. And he said, I just wish I had some way to sit down with him and help him feel better about himself. And something just went off in my mind of, you know what, I'm not going to make a documentary. I want to make something that kids want to watch. And then they could sit down with their parent when they come home from school.

And so that led to my using the idea of using real [00:05:00] kids with learning differences. So everyone in the cast of the videos on SuperDville has a learning difference, ADD, dysgraphia, dyslexia, and making these short narratives. Which then can be discussed and activities can be done from that. Um, and why I really knew I had to do something was because of my daughter. I just felt like, okay, not enough has changed. This is the topic that I, I want to do now. So that's how it all started. 

Pippa: That's really interesting. How did you select the members for your cast? 

Peggy: Yeah, it was a really interesting process. And even though I said not a lot had changed since I was little, of course, that's not totally true. And one of the remarkable things that was different is that I put out a casting call for the tri- state area. And I think parents have changed in that parents have become advocates for their kids and have really started to say to the [00:06:00] education system, why aren't you meeting the needs of my child just because they learn differently?

You know, why does everyone have to learn in exactly the same way? So I expected, you know, 20 kids to show up. There were 70 kids the first morning, and that was just unbelievable. And. There were certainly a few of them where their parents had dragged them there and they didn't really want to be there.

But there were lots of them who understood what this was about and that the main thing that they had to agree to was that they were willing to be public about their dyslexia. And, you know, in my day, I never told a soul and to have all these children willing to be in videos on the web, whatever else might happen with the project, they were totally up for it.

As were their parents, and often parents have a lot of shame about their children and why are they different? Why aren't they as good as Joey who's reading, you know, Harry Potter already in first grade? So I think that was just [00:07:00] thrilling. And so the criteria was that you needed to be willing to be public and you needed to love to perform.

You didn't need to have any training. And it was very important to me also that the cast was diverse. Because I do feel that it's been more likely if you were white middle class from an urban setting that you would maybe get identified and get some help. And if you weren't in one of those, you know, if that wasn't the case.

You very well might still think no one was like you and you're the only one who was struggling. And so I wanted kids to be able to see themselves in the cast, so we had to work hard at that. 

Pippa: So how do you craft your videos to strategically address specific needs of dyslexic students? 

Peggy: Well, the videos themselves have just been done to be as engaging as possible. You know, we've thought more about all kids, and in fact, the curriculum Is used in general ed [00:08:00] classes because, I mean, the themes of the videos range from procrastination, stress, confidence. These are things that all kids face. I mean, you don't just have to be dyslexic to deal with those issues and there's nothing ever written that doesn't have an audio voiceover.

So they'll never have to deal like, Oh my goodness, wait a minute, something just went by and I couldn't read it. They're always going to be able to hear it. So that's one thing we did. And then the opening title is, is everyone who performs in this video has dyslexia or some other kind of learning difference.

So from the get go, we're saying, Hey, you're with your people. You could be in this video. And we've heard that has been just amazingly powerful. And it's really using a peer to peer model, right? They talk about tutoring when you have a young person tutoring someone a bit younger, that that can be really powerful.

And so we're sort of doing [00:09:00] it in the videos where instead of just one to one, it's hopefully one to potentially thousands because kids are seeing themselves in the videos. 

Pippa: That's very, very interesting. So what needs do dyslexic students have in most modern school systems? 

Peggy: A huge need is that they get identified as early as possible. And we know that. All the research, all the work that's been done using MRIs show that the brain is wired differently. And that's why children are having trouble learning to read like their peers. And if you can intervene when they're really very little as early as ideally, you know, kindergarten, first grade, second grade, the brain is, has more plasticity and you can really retrain some of those neuropathways.

And the longer you wait to intervene, the harder that's going to be, but more than that, the more baggage the child is going to get [00:10:00] about being different and less than. So by third grade, when a lot of public schools do the testing to start evaluating kids on their level, that's a horrible moment for the kids who are now getting aware of their peers and very much involved in sensing themselves as part of a community more opposed to when you're younger and it's sort of, you're the center of the universe, that's changing and it's right when then they're told, well, you need to go into a special little room to learn, you know, because you're different.

But on top of that, there has to be a huge shift in training teachers to teach properly. And unfortunately, our graduate schools of education and educational system in general. Has had some misguided ideas about reading, which is changing now. Thank goodness. But it had been up until really recently that kids pretty much can learn to teach reading to themselves.[00:11:00] 

If you have enough books around, you know, and they'll, they'll just progress naturally. And we just know that is true in some cases. My son was one of those cases. But it's certainly not every child, and there can be kids who have specifically dyslexia, but there can be kids where English is a second language or lots of other different ways that they are going to probably struggle with learning how to read unless they're taught in a way that's more specific to breaking down the sounds and decoding and really practicing some of the fundamentals.

And they need teachers who are trained to do that. And that just hasn't happened sufficiently. 

Pippa: Yes, I 100 percent agree that the school systems definitely need to adapt to the students who have learning differences. It's very difficult for the students to be able to feel like they can learn at the same level as their peers without feeling singled out. All [00:12:00] because their brain learns differently and That's completely acceptable. It's fine, you know. 

Peggy: But I think, you know, when they have often maybe 20 to 30 kids in a class, and they haven't been given the training to have to really meet the needs of a differentiated classroom, as they call it now, where kids are going to be learning at these different paces and need different things.

It's hard. I mean, I feel for teachers, but at this point, there's no excuse. Our system has to change. It has to change in graduate schools of education, where the students need to be given the proper training. So I think it is beginning to slowly, and I think lots of, you know, incredible warrior type educators and parents and kids themselves.

Who have become more open and have become advocates for themselves. And that's one of the big things we do in our curriculum at SuperDville is we look at confidence and self esteem, but we also work towards self advocacy [00:13:00] so that you can become in charge of what works best for you as the best methodology to learn, for instance, if you're an auditory learner, which is true of my daughter and not true of me, I'm much more of a visual learner, then you know to say, right, you need certain accommodations or certain things to help you and you go as little as elementary school. I mean, our videos start, we say they're for third graders, but we know that teachers use them with second graders.

So, you know, we have a few videos that specifically are designed to have also activities. Where the kids watch the video and then the teacher is given prompts to help a discussion afterwards. And then all of the videos have hands on activities so that they can meet the needs of kids who might be more comfortable getting an idea into their heads through making something, drawing something, doing different modalities.

So for instance, one is to make a megaphone that they use just [00:14:00] paper, and then they design it, you know, and it's just to get across that concept of speaking up. You know, some of the stuff the kids make is so imaginative and I think it does stick in their minds. Oh yeah, so that the thing I made is what I think of when I'm going to say, I'm nervous, but I better tell this teacher how I'm feeling, you know, what I need right now.

Pippa: So what's your view on accommodations in the classroom to help students with learning differences? 

Peggy: I think it's great. I think though it has to be done in conjunction with the kind of work that I'm talking about because I mean, I've literally heard stories of kids who don't want to use books on tape, for instance, because they feel embarrassed, you know, they feel like, Oh, the kids in my class are going to think that's weird, or they don't, you know, if it's not an environment that's embraced neurodiversity, that's, you know, not maybe for third graders, do you have to walk around using that word, but the idea that difference is to be [00:15:00] celebrated, that we're different and how great, you know, Peggy likes to use audio books. How cool is that? So I think as long as that's the community spirit and that's the environment, then it's great. 

Pippa: Would you say that students with learning differences or dyslexia struggle emotionally with how they learn? 

Well, I don't think they would be struggling emotionally that much if those around them made them feel that they were normal, quote unquote, that, you know, everybody is neurodivergent.

Everybody learn something differently. And yet we still have an educational system that says that there's an average kid, you know, an average student. And so the minute you notice that you aren't fitting into that way of doing things, I think most kids have a lot of emotional reaction to that. You know, they say that.

There's quite a high number, certainly of [00:16:00] anxiety and, but even moving into depression by quite young ages of kids who have dyslexia, like clinical depression, because they feel so frustrated and they feel, you know, reading is so critical to your progression in school. So, if you're not being able to get this very basic skill, it just feels overwhelming.

Pippa: So what strategies helped you when you were beginning to work with your learning difference? 

Peggy: I think the things I said earlier about my tutor. Being really willing to look at me as a whole person, you know, not just a brain that needed to learn how to read words on a page. And so the fact that from the beginning, I was able to always have a little bit time to draw at the end.

I learned how to read partly through cooking and through reading recipes. Just things that I was going to enjoy enough to get through the hard part, which was this constant repetition. In order to kind of [00:17:00] get the decoding into my brain. I mean, I think there are a lot of positive things that you learn as a dyslexic about who you are because I think what happens is you end up understanding that you don't have to get everything right away.

Now, if you can learn to accept that, it'll help you the rest of your life, because you'll be willing to say, oh, I didn't do as well on that, you know, test. I guess I'll just have to keep working at this until I do better. While some kids who, let's say, are really good in school in the beginning, and then it gets harder, And they start to face some challenges, they can fall apart because they were like, wait a minute, this is supposed to be really easy.

So I think it's learning to tolerate the fact that it's not always going to be easy. And it isn't, you know, especially if you're dyslexic. So I think that becomes a life strength kind of to develop that skill. 

Pippa: What are some tools that you would recommend to students with dyslexia in their everyday lives since, you know, you have dyslexia and your daughter has dyslexia, what have [00:18:00] you observed?

Peggy: I mean, the obvious stuff is, technology is our friend. My childhood would have been a lot easier with spellcheck. And I think books on tape are major. I mean, I know dyslexics who have gone on to law school, and the fact that they can speed up the book allows them sometimes to get through the material faster than their peers who are using the written page.

So, I think all of those tools are amazing. I think that, that for some of the kids who have dyslexia and ADD, I think that's very challenging because dealing with the focus elements can be a lot. And as you progress and have more responsibilities being on top of the sort of executive functioning, as they call it, I think making lists, being comfortable with whatever form of organization helps you.

And then I think. Having at least one or two people in your life that you're really honest with about what this is [00:19:00] like, and you share the struggles in, you know, that you, frustration, the, whatever you might feel. And then the last thing I would say is I really believe, and it's so simple, in the strength based model.

And I think this is true for every child. We have a, an activity where it's just the outline of a brain. And one of the videos we have compares these two in a crazy scientist's lab. It compares two brains that were made out of Jell-O mold. And it's very, very funny and kids really like it and it's gooey and yicky, but it's perfect.

And you know, the, the idea being though that in the activity is we have the kids fill in what they think are their strengths. That's where we start. And I just really believe in that is that you keep checking in each year with, you know, what have I improved on, what do I like, what makes me happy in school, what things, I mean, there has to be one thing, [00:20:00] besides, you know, maybe going to lunch, you know, that you can find that you think you can do, and it might be that you like practicing handwriting or you're good at numbers, or you love science, or you're just curious, or you're a good friend. What are you good at? And then work off that. 

Pippa: Do you have any advice that you can share with the audience? 

Peggy: I truly believe you have to reduce it down to something as simple to some degree as, Feeling okay about yourself, even though you're going to initially struggle with something that a lot of people around you seem not to struggle with.

So we can all as parents, as teachers sort of think, Ah, well, we're giving this child everything that they need. So it's going to work eventually. And they will learn how to read. Well, as the little person who's sitting there going through this, you don't see that yet. You know, you don't have that. [00:21:00] ability to see into the future and know that it's going to all work out.

And so I think it's just really, really important for the adults around that child to reinforce as much as possible, you know, that idea of, well, okay, look what you did well today. Look at how great you were able to do that. And to keep making them feel that, the deficit doesn't define them. The idea that they're struggling with this one thing is not all of who they are.

So that's my biggest piece of advice, I think, is that, I mean, it's almost like, like yourself, like yourself, yes, you know, embrace who you are. And if part of that is being dyslexic, fine, that's great. There's a lot of positive things about the dyslexic mind. You know, that we've seen that there's, you know, just a lot of wonderful success stories.

And you don't have to be famous. I mean, it's just, you just appreciate the things where your mind is [00:22:00] probably coming up with some solution or way of doing something and the people around you might not have thought of it that way. Well, that's a strength. 

Pippa: That's a great message to tell. And thank you so much for joining us today.

Pippa: I had a great time listening to you and speaking with you. Thank you. 

Peggy: Well, it's great. You have wonderful questions. I appreciate you inviting me onto the podcast.